Curse

petrorabbit · Nov 27, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

OP, if you want to use a mesmer for both PvE and PvP, then go ahead and do it.

If you are H/H'ing your way in PvE, have as much fun as you want. Be as bad as you want because your Jora, Mhenlo, or Olias is not going to complain. You can use [Signet of Illusion] all you want because your heroes and henchies aren't going to call you bad for using it, mainly because they don't care.

But if you play in a group, whether PvE or PvP, then that is when you play serious and actually use something efficient. Real people do complain because they can. When you do play with others, make sure you do learn the proper way to play a mesmer.

FoxBat · Nov 27, 2008, 05:35 AM // 05:35

[Assassin's Promise][Ether Signet] is all you need for energy.

daze · Nov 27, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

[Assassin's Promise][Ether Signet] is all you need for energy.

thats so simple its brilliant!! With the recharge benefit of [assassins [email protected]] you can just cast [ether [email protected]] anytime you get low. Screw the 45 second recharge.

[[email protected]][assassins [email protected]][cry of [email protected]][arcane echo][ether [email protected]][mind [email protected]][finish [email protected]][ether [email protected]]

just cast [ether signet] any time you drop below 10 energy. problem fixed.

wire dawg · Nov 27, 2008, 07:08 AM // 07:08

here what i say to most of everyones qqing...each class has pros and cons..for those of u that say ele's suck in hm learn to play the class instead of using it for uw..my prim is ele and it kicks ass in hm k thx...and to answer your question it a personaly prefrence make both and see which u feel more comftable with

daze · Nov 27, 2008, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by wire dawg

here what i say to most of everyones qqing...each class has pros and cons..for those of u that say ele's suck in hm learn to play the class instead of using it for uw..my prim is ele and it kicks ass in hm k thx...and to answer your question it a personaly prefrence make both and see which u feel more comftable with

Who is QQing? this thread is suprisingly lacking in the QQ department.. all i have seen so far is mild flaming with a touch of smart assery. But in all, this is a mostly clean thread. The OP asked for opinions on what is more effective, ele or mez. I have an ele as my primary with a mahogany guildhall and i am aware that eles are a lot better than most of the flamers on Guru might tell you but i just keep that to myself.

The fact is that Eles tend to rely on off-profession skills to deal big dommage in HM. ([[assassins promise][[you move like a dwarf][[finish him] or even [[cry of pain]).. And for ele skills to be the best choice in HM, you need to take on a utility role whether it be KD, Snare, Blind, wards. Fire is still playable in HM and it will still get the job done. Are there more effective options? The short answer is yes. But i don't love my ele any less because of it. And ill continue to play my ele until he is GWAMM.

kostolomac · Nov 27, 2008, 02:38 PM // 14:38

OP, for PvE: I can nuke better as a mesmer , but you don't use ele skills. Or you can play as a fast cast ele in pve , nothing can stop you.

Tyla · Nov 27, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Cast [channeling]

So you rely on bad positioning to deal this damage? The last place you want to be is in the frontline.

Quote:

Cast your mesmer hex or hexes.

And the one you're using is bad. Ether Nightmare can be replaced by a much more useful skill, and if you're not in a Cryway team you'd need it less. Use Mind Wrack or Fragility. Cheaper, saves a PvE skill slot, spammable encase your H/H f*ck up immensely.

Oh, and Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support or whatever other PvE-only skill would be immensely more powerful than Ether Nightmare.

Quote:

[energy tap] when needed. (9 free energy every AP kill)

Did you know the time casting this skill will take time off killing shit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wire dawg

here what i say to most of everyones qqing...each class has pros and cons..for those of u that say ele's suck in hm learn to play the class instead of using it for uw..my prim is ele and it kicks ass in hm k thx...and to answer your question it a personaly prefrence make both and see which u feel more comftable with

Nobody's QQ'ing. Eles do suck in HM outside of supporting the team, which can be done more efficiently by other classes considering that most Ele skills need little attribution to be effective in PvE. "learn to play the class" isn't an argument, just because you can "kick ass in hm" doesn't make it good because PvE is easy.

Tyla · Nov 29, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

the only characters that play backline are monks and channeling is bad for monks. [[channeling] is a great skill for a midliner which is where the rest of the casters should be. A smart caster usually targets the enemies backline first. If you can reach the backline of an enemy mob then [[channeling] will be in perfect position.

So your idea of good positioning on a midliner is standing next to enemies which deal a shit ton of damage???

Quote:

try to keep up in the thread if you are going to criticize. You will see in an above thread that my last post does include [[mind wreck]

Keep in mind the bar you're using has Mind Wrack and Ether Nightmare too.

Quote:

once again try to keep up, we shouldnt be going too fast for you. Look upwards a few posts and let me know if you see [[energy tap] in it. here ill even help keep you up to date.
[[email protected]][assassins [email protected]][cry of [email protected]][arcane echo][ether [email protected]][mind [email protected]][finish [email protected]][ether [email protected]]

Guess I'll criticize this too.

Why Ether Nightmare if you have Mind Wrack? You have the Mesmer hex, you don't need it anymore and using a different PvE skill will serve your power much more immensely.

Quote:

and there are 2 reasons i like [[ether nightmare]
1: its a mesmer hex which primes [[cry of pain

You have Mind Wrack on your bar...?

If you're using Assassins' Promise, Ether Nightmare AND Mind Wrack on your bar, get rid of Ether Nightmare or Mind Wrack. Save a skill slot.

Quote:

2: The 8 degen is usefull

So is an Assassin triggering shit like Barbs, Mark of Pain and other things. The Assassin can have copies too.

Quote:

im not going to get into an argument with you about how you think degen is pointless in pve so just save it. It has been said before many times that degen is nice when you have damage and utility mixed in with it.

Actually, I didn't say it was pointless in PvE at all. I said that there are a lot more skills that can be used to take the skills place. Don't tell me to "keep up with the thread" when you're not even reading the post you're responding to properly.

Tyla · Nov 29, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

you may want to re-read the description for [[channeling]. In case you missed it, you dont have to be standing "next" to the enemy as you say. When it says "enemies in the area" it means in your aggro bubble. Which means a smart caster usually takes a mob out starting with the monks first. Hope im not going to fast here. When you are targeting a backline enemy, it means you usually have all the other enemies in your aggro bubble.
Then ONLY enemies you would be remotely close to would be the enemy melee. And once again if you are smart, then you either have minions to body block, melee to keep busy or a little thing called kiting which can be very effective when used properly.

If you were smart you'd understand that the last place you'd want to be is close to an enemy. You want to be as far back as possible for the best positioning. This also includes ranged enemies as it gives more room for protting, although highly minimal. The only time you should be more up close is when you're using something that benefits strongly from it.

Quote:

ever heard of a cover hex?

2 words: Cover hex. It might be hard to believe but some of the enemies in GW have been known to carry hex removal.

Then that slot should be optional. Not every enemy in Guild Wars has hex removal either, and even then, your Assassins Promise will probably be pulled off like 70% of the time aswell if there is hex removal.

Also, if you want a cover hex, there are fairly spammable 1/4 hexes. Mind Wrack is just an excuse to remove Ether Nightmare if you're not going to take a 1/4 hex.

Quote:

If you pack 2 mesmer hexes on your bar then you have effectively doubled your chance of achieving a successful [[cry of pain] hit when the enemy has hex removal. Not to mention that [[mind wrack] makes a great coverhex just because of its low cost and recharge.

OR you can just not suck and bring just Mind Wrack, and follow up with Cry of Pain. If you want an AoE hex then use something like Arcane Conundrum. That actually does something worth its merit.

Quote:

Umm, what does [[assassins promise] have to do with [[mind wrack] and [[ether nightmare] besides the obvious being a hex.

... Hi, Ether Nightmare has a recharge of 15 and a duration of 10. With Assassins Promise, assuming your team isn't piss poor at the game, you shouldn't need a second hex at all unless there is some heavy hex removal, in which case Assassins' Promise will probably be gone aswell.

Quote:

What?

These things are called "teams".

Quote:

Actually I make sure to read all post thoroughly. And ive seen in other threads where you criticize degen. And the only reason i say keep up in the thread is because you were focusing on an earlier post when my latest post had the most recent information.

This isn't the other threads, and I'm talking about much better alternatives in terms of PvE-only skill selection. I would use something that merits a skill slot if all 3 PvE skill slots were gone, however.

cerick · Nov 30, 2008, 02:09 PM // 14:09

I just want to start off with saying “Wow, flamers unite. Form of uber flame deity!” I know I’m a little late for this post, but I see my favorite flamers have made their usual pointless remarks. I find it hard to believe that many of the people who have posted on this thread have any idea what the current game Meta is concerning Lemon’s questions. I noticed that several people have commented on the damage output of an elementalist is “barely decent” or “fair”. And how people implied they are so easy to interrupt in PvP from the lack of fast casting. Well, I’d just like to say that very little more could be said in this post that could be more ignorant. For all you flamers out there, have you ever even bothered to look at what the top guilds are running for builds? Well, I was going to elaborate on their builds, but why even go there.

Now on to Lemon’s questions.

If you are running your Mez and want to change things up in AB, in my experience they run water magic hybrid builds best.
And if you want “pure demolition” an elementalist is your best bet. Since the flames are so high, I’ll just give you a couple ideas for AB builds. Try a fire build using Teinai’s Heat and Searing Heat. Or try a dual attunement air magic build.
Just remember that there are only three good skills, and no good builds. lol

Don’t let common sense get in your way people, flame on!

Tyla · Nov 30, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Well.

It seems that you completely missed the point. Maybe i didnt make it simple enough. But either way i give up. Ill post my previous explanation one more time and highlight the points which you obviously missed. This will probably be my last response to any of your posts because i can see how much of a waste of time it is. Your point-making is too flimsy and i can see that you are grasping at straws.

Kiting learn to do it. Maybe its just my play style but EVERYTIME i aggro a group i keep the whole mob in my bubble for multiple reasons. Ill give you 2 reasons.
1. Makes it easy to tab to a key target
2. You can reach the back line to kill them first.

The idea of kiting is to stay as far away from an enemy as possible while avoiding damage and having the ability to fulfil your role. If you're not kiting, which you can't do while casting spells unless you're hacking, then Channeling gets its upside. Maybe I should spell it out for you.

Channeling goes up.
You move into a mob and cast, getting Channelings' advantage on energy gain.
or
You kite the mob and waste a skill slot.

Quote:

Umm. Nope. The way hex removal works for enemies that just have single hex removal is they usually take the hex off the top of the stack. Since Assassins Promise is casted first, its usually on the Bottom of the stack. Then that leaves you with the 2 Mesmer hexes, [[ether nightmare] which has a good effect of AoE Heavy Degen and [[mind wrack] which is cheap, spammable and has a long duration.

Long duration is near meaningless as long as you're not being bad at killing, the reflexes of enemies in PvE make cover hexes hard to use so you must bait hex before putting on your proper hex, meaning you're going to get your AP in late or you're going to get it removed.

Quote:

I can see that you have resorted to arguing semantics so im not even going to touch on this point.

That wasn't an argument, that was a suggestion.

Quote:

really? [[arcane conundrum]? that's what you come back with? A Hex where you have to spec to illusion otherwise it lasts 5 seconds, and it only works on spellcasters? Way to go.

[arcane conundrum] ftw lol (love the 2 second cast time)

If you've got a clue you'd know that removing attributes from Deadly Arts, Fast Casting or Inspiration wouldn't make much of a difference. "only" working on spellcasters is like saying Enfeebling Blood is good because it "only" works against non-spell attackers. Also, you do know that Ether Nightmare has a 3 second cast time...

Quote:

Hi, my name is [[assassins promise] If im used correctly, recharge times have ZERO consequence. And especially when you stack 2 mesmer hexes on top of my head, I am more likely to recharge your skills for you.

... If your recharge times will have zero consiquence if used correctly, don't suck and bring one Mesmer hex or just use a hex as bait. One of your team members could do the same to save slots too.

Quote:

It seems that you have completely derailed on this point to umm. Yeah.

In other words you don't have a team? Leaving it out is pretty dumb. If you want to cover just micro some sort of hex on the enemy.

Quote:

Nice cliffhanger. lol when a person puts ",however" at the end of a thought it usually means you still have some point to express. Kinda like this "I like to eat steak, however potatoes are good also" or "This is my thought, However this is my addition to the thought."
I always thought good grammar was important, however ...

I find it funny that you criticize my choice of words and still not post against what I said. The last part is irrelevent to the rest of what you quoted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

snip

Yeah, um. I've only seen you sugar coat your points. Also, the only reason to not go Me/E for FC on a snarer is when you're going E/Mo for Healing Breeze for splitting.

Also, there's a difference between aggressive discussion and flaming. Carebears often confuse the two.

Tyla · Nov 30, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Well thats not the way i kite.

There's more than one definition of kiting?

Quote:

With that being said. Let me just conceed my points all together. You win. Killing mobs from melee to monk is the best way because you can stay as far back as possible to avoid having to be close to enemies. Even though i will continue to kill mobs from Monk to melee, yours is the smartest way to do things.

Who brought up killing things like that up? I'm simply saying using Channeling implies you're going to be standing next to shit deliberately is causing more pain to your party than benefits in PvE.

Tarkin · Dec 03, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

I have all 10 classes complete with skills and heros and a good build for pve to every class...

Try to use this for mesmer pve...

[skill]Fevered Dreams[/skill][skill]Arcane Conundrum[/skill][skill]Accumulated Pain[/skill][skill]Shrinking Armor[/skill][skill]Shatter Delusions[/skill][skill]Ethereal Burden[/skill][skill]Kitah's Burden[/skill] in order of cast... just a tip you will focus in a soft target like monk or ele in center of mob and he will die fast... if you see he will die fast jump to Ethereal Burden and Kitah's Burden to get energy... all mob will die fast because the deep wound and cracked armor and monk cant deal with damage because dazed and aeo damage and mimion bombs...no worrys about energy...

all points in Illusion Magic and fast casting... Shatter Delusions is only to trigger Shrinking Armor... bring a broad arrow ranger... a mm... and a earth ele with wards and AoE skills... a free slot for rezmer... [skill]Cry of Pain[/skill] or [skill]Frustration[/skill] or [skill]Confusing Images[/skill]...

If they dont die before you cast Kitah's Burden you doing it wrong...

Antares Ascending · Dec 04, 2008, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

And the reason for this is because it's a bad skill? If you don't have a place for it, what's the point of recommending it to others?

HMMM. My original post also stated I don't use it. Sry it may have looked like a defend of the skill on a quick read.

My post was to point out a uneeded remark by Tyla. Some people can have an actual conversation here while others seem to have a need to dis people
= Flame Match.
The statement referred to ended with:
'And if you're using your elite for like 4 extra damage I'm not even going to comment' No comment had been made to this effect. Just couldn't resist a chance to call someone stupid?

Look at where this thread has gone. It is now a flame war. Watch the forums and take an honest look at the people and attitudes that start flames.

Bobby2 · Dec 04, 2008, 05:16 AM // 05:16

This

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

[energy tap] when needed. (9 free energy every AP kill)

Then this

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

thats so simple its brilliant!! With the recharge benefit of [assassin's promise] you can just cast [ether signet] anytime you get low. Screw the 45 second recharge.

[power drain] is now a sad panda

daze · Dec 04, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

This

Then this

[power drain] is now a sad panda

[power drain] is better used by heroes because most humans cant interrupt like heroes can.
Now if you are a pro interrupter then that will open up more betterer options for inspiration e management. [leech signet][power drain]

Tyla · Dec 04, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Ya, kinda like there is more than one definition of "skinning a cat"

You attempt to distort my words to discredit them but you fail.

There may be only one definition of kiting, but there is more than one way to do it.

Explain your other ways of kiting. Do you use the WASD instead of mouseclick or something? Because that's by far less efficient.

Quote:

Here is the scenerio. You target the backline of an enemy mob. That makes the frontline and the midline of the mob in your area. Which will return anywhere from 3-6 energy per spell. With a few kiting skills you can dance around the area snagging the enemy melee on minions or decoys. Only if you are getting hit with more than you can handle.

Full: For 8...46 seconds, whenever you cast a spell, you gain 1 Energy for each foe in the area.

(8...46 seconds.) You gain 1 Energy for each foe in the area whenever you cast a spell.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Range
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:RadarRanges.jpg

Ok i give up, this will be my last reply to any of your posts. Only because we have been repeating the same thing for a whole page now.

I said be as far back as possible while doing so much. Only go frontal when you're benefitting from it vastly, for example Distracting Shot. In the area isn't as far back as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antares

HMMM. My original post also stated I don't use it. Sry it may have looked like a defend of the skill on a quick read.

My post was to point out a uneeded remark by Tyla. Some people can have an actual conversation here while others seem to have a need to dis people
= Flame Match.
The statement referred to ended with:
'And if you're using your elite for like 4 extra damage I'm not even going to comment' No comment had been made to this effect. Just couldn't resist a chance to call someone stupid?

Look at where this thread has gone. It is now a flame war. Watch the forums and take an honest look at the people and attitudes that start flames.

There is no such thing as an uneeded remark, but then again do I really give a shit?

-Lotus- · Dec 04, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Daze, i'm pretty sure ive attempted to explain this to you before, but ill try again...

Words have definitions. you dont get to make them up. that means that when you are arguing with someone and words like "kiting" or "strategy", perhaps even "thought-process", come up they already have a pre-assigned definition which has been agreed upon. They don't mean whatever you want them to. If you don't understand a term look it up, wiki has an extensive list of in-game terms and slang, don't justmake your own definition.

Antares Ascending · Dec 05, 2008, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Originally Posted by Antares
HMMM. My original post also stated I don't use it. Sry it may have looked like a defend of the skill on a quick read.

My post was to point out a uneeded remark by Tyla. Some people can have an actual conversation here while others seem to have a need to dis people
= Flame Match.
The statement referred to ended with:
'And if you're using your elite for like 4 extra damage I'm not even going to comment' No comment had been made to this effect. Just couldn't resist a chance to call someone stupid?

Look at where this thread has gone. It is now a flame war. Watch the forums and take an honest look at the people and attitudes that start flames.

Tyla's reply
There is no such thing as an uneeded remark, but then again do I really give a shit?

Ok, Unneeded, happy? If you don't care, why respond?

By this i mean dissing someone who simply asked a question. A question not having anything to do with your remark...just a gratuitous dis. I'm sure this will be argued but I see a certain name at the heart of a significant number of the flame threads. Not because of an honest dif in opinion but because of a total lack of regard and oh...never failing to let people know you do PVP and anyone who doesn't is worthless.

FYI People play for many reasons. Most to get away for a while, enjoy themselves without having a second job. Very very few have nearly unlimited time as you seem to. This will end at some point when you leave the nest and have actual respnsibilities. Maybe a break is in order, find a way to relax and realize people have priorities other than to study for an argument/exam in skills.

As said, you are the number 1 flamer. Just can't seem to respond without adding a dis.

Ok, wasted enough time. Have fun

Laughing Bat · Dec 05, 2008, 03:31 PM // 15:31

To the op: The answer to your question is yes, fc nuker is just fine if your in the mood to change things up on your mesmer. There have even been all mesmer groups with people running fc nukers and fc healers. Remember the most important thing is to have fun, there are a lot of ways to be successfull in this game and you don't always have to use "the best" one.

On a diffrent note.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

Don’t let common sense get in your way people, flame on!

I desperately want this on a t-shirt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

Words have definitions. you dont get to make them up. that means that when you are arguing with someone and words like "kiting" or "strategy", perhaps even "thought-process", come up they already have a pre-assigned definition which has been agreed upon. They don't mean whatever you want them to.

This too.